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January 31, 2010

Doing What Is Forbidden by Conciliarism

by Thomas A. Droleskey

Today is Seputagesima Sunday and the Commemoration of the Feast of Saint John Bosco. One year, please God that it is His Holy Will to keep me alive for another year, I might even get around to writing an specifically devoted to this saint, a priest who was so zealous for the conversion of souls that he would bribe stage coach drivers to get to Confession. Suffice for present purposes to note that Saint John Bosco, unlike Joseph Ratzinger/Benedict XVI, who is just two weeks removed from his visit to the Talmudic synagogue in Rome, Italy, and his band of conciliar revolutionaries, sought to convert souls when he was but a teenaged boy:

There were in John's class, at the school in Chieri, several Jews who were in difficulties about their Saturday's work. For them it was the Sabbath, when all work was forbidden. But the older boys used to laugh at them as if it were an extra vacation day. John, who saw that it was a question of conscience, used to send them a list of the work given out, with the explanations. In consequence, they vowed him an eternal friendship, and one of them, who used to frequent the restaurant where John worked, became very intimate with him. One day this young fellow, whose name was Jonas, got mixed up in a school scrape and, anxious about the consequences, came to consult his friend.

"If you were a Christian," said John, "I should take you straight off to Confession, but that can't be done."

"Why not? We can go to Confession if we like."

"Perhaps, but you have no Sacrament of Penance, no power to forgive sins, no guarantee of secrecy."

"I will go to a Catholic priest if you like."

"You can't unless you are baptized and believe in Jesus Christ."

"What would they say at home?"

"If God calls you to this, He will protect you."

"What would you do if you were in my place?" asked the young Jew.

"I would begin to study the catechism," said John.

The advice was taken; John prayed. Light and conviction came to Jonas, but the catechism was discovered. Irate parents took it to the Rabbi and accused John of betraying the friendship and ruining the soul of their son. Both friends had a good deal to suffer; there were even threats of violence. Jonas had to leave home, but he stood firm in his determination to become a Catholic. In the end, friends came to his assistance, the young Jew was baptized and the tumult died down. Several others followed him into the Church. (F. A. Forbes, Saint John Bosco, reprinted by TAN Books and Publishers, Rockford, Illinois, pp. 25-27.)


Such zeal for souls would be condemned in most places in the counterfeit church of conciliarism today. Indeed, the priest who is still the Preacher to the "Papal" Household, Father Raniero Cantalamessa, O.F.M., Cap., said the following in 2005 for which he has never been corrected by "Pope" Benedict XVI:

If Jews one day come (as Paul hopes) to a more positive judgment of Jesus, this must occur through an inner process, as the end of a search of their own (something that in part is occurring). We Christians cannot be the ones who seek to convert them. We have lost the right to do so by the way in which this was done in the past. First the wounds must be healed through dialogue and reconciliation. ("Appropriate Attitude Toward the Jewish People" Zenit, September 30, 2005.)


By the way this was done in the past? By whom? Saint Peter? Saint Stephen the Protomartyr? Saint Paul? Saint John Chrysostom? Saint Vincent Ferrer? Fathers Maria-Alfonse and Theodore Ratisbonne? Saint John Bosco? Pope Saint Pius X, who, I will never tire of reminding you, was bold enough to speak very directly to the founder of international Zionism, Theodore Herzl?

POPE: We are unable to favor this movement [of Zionism]. We cannot prevent the Jews from going to Jerusalem—but we could never sanction it. The ground of Jerusalem, if it were not always sacred, has been sanctified by the life of Jesus Christ. As the head of the Church I cannot answer you otherwise. The Jews have not recognized our Lord, therefore we cannot recognize the Jewish people.

HERZL: [The conflict between Rome and Jerusalem, represented by the one and the other of us, was once again under way. At the outset I tried to be conciliatory. I said my little piece. . . . It didn’t greatly impress him. Jerusalem was not to be placed in Jewish hands.] And its present status, Holy Father?

POPE: I know, it is disagreeable to see the Turks in possession of our Holy Places. We simply have to put up with it. But to sanction the Jewish wish to occupy these sites, that we cannot do.

HERZL: [I said that we based our movement solely on the sufferings of the Jews, and wished to put aside all religious issues].

POPE: Yes, but we, but I as the head of the Catholic Church, cannot do this. One of two things will likely happen. Either the Jews will retain their ancient faith and continue to await the Messiah whom we believe has already appeared—in which case they are denying the divinity of Jesus and we cannot assist them. Or else they will go there with no religion whatever, and then we can have nothing at all to do with them. The Jewish faith was the foundation of our own, but it has been superceded by the teachings of Christ, and we cannot admit that it still enjoys any validity. The Jews who should have been the first to acknowledge Jesus Christ have not done so to this day.


Saint John Bosco knew even as a teenaged boy that he had an obligation to seek the conversion of souls to the true Faith no matter what it might cost them in their own families and amongst their own friends. Motivated solely by a pure love of God as He has revealed Himself to us exclusively through the true Church that He founded upon the Rock of Peter, the Pope, Saint John Bosco was willing to die a death of many white martyrdoms throughout the course of his priesthood as he was misunderstood, reviled, calumniated, and even persecuted by some jealous ecclesiastical rivals because of the great gifts that God had given him to deal with souls. Among those gifts, of course, were the ability to read souls, something that gave him quite an upper hand when dealing with shifty characters in the Masonically-controlled government of the City of Turin, Italy, and when outwitting two brother priests who tried to send him off to the insane asylum. Throughout it all, however, Saint John Bosco knew that there was only one path of salvation, the Catholic Church, and he was unstinting in his efforts to convert non-Catholics and to bring back those who had lapsed from the practice of the Holy Faith.

This is, of course, quite a contrast to the manner in which the conciliarists, staring with Ratzinger/Benedict himself, are quite content to reaffirm non-Catholics in their false beliefs time and time and time again. Simple reiterations of Catholic doctrine made by popes and bishops over the centuries can be cast aside by these doctrinal and liturgical revolutionaries as they have sought to justify their own apostasies and blasphemies and sacrileges that they are "maintaining" Catholic tradition even though they words and actions and in direct defiance of these simple truths expressed by Bishop George Hay over two centuries ago now:

The spirit of Christ, which dictated the Holy Scriptures, and the spirit which animates and guides the Church of Christ, and teaches her all truth, is the same; and therefore in all ages her conduct on this point has been uniformly the same as what the Holy Scripture teaches. She has constantly forbidden her children to hold any communication, in religious matters, with those who are separated from her communion; and this she has sometimes done under the most severe penalties. In the apostolical canons, which are of very ancient standing, and for the most part handed down from the apostolical age, it is thus decreed: "If any bishop, or priest, or deacon, shall join in prayers with heretics, let him be suspended from Communion". (Can. 44)

Also, "If any clergyman or laic shall go into the synagogue of the Jews, or the meetings of heretics, to join in prayer with them, let him be deposed, and deprived of communion". (Can. 63) (Bishop George Hay, (The Laws of God Forbidding All Communication in Religion With Those of a False Religion.)

As noted a few days ago in Only Those Nasty Traditionalists Need to Convert, the conciliarists, most unlike Saint John Bosco, permit non-Catholics to "convert" on their own terms as the "Anglo-Catholics" are offered special "terms" that including permitting permitted them to retain heretical liturgical rites and as the The Ravenna Document, October 13, 2007, has proposed a possible formula for the "full communion" of the Orthodox by permitting them to hold to a concept of Papal Primacy that is but a figment of the fertile, Modernist imagination fo Ratzinger/Benedict himself. Abjuration of error? Perish the thought.

Our situation is so bizarre that some traditionally-minded Catholics attached to the structures of the counterfeit church of conciliarism are making much of a disclaimer issued by the "Pontifical" Council for Promoting Christian Unity on January 26, 2010, that sought to put cold water on a news report on "discussions" between conciliar representatives and those of the Orthodox confessions concerning the possibility of permitting the Orthodox to accept a "model" of Papal Primacy as it was said to have existed in the First Millennium. One rather prestigious Motu website that censors all harsh reality, such as Ratzinger/Benedict's stating publicly in the Rome synagogue that Christians and Jews "pray to the same Lord," has indicated that it is preposterous that such an arrangement could be offered to the Orthodox, that such an arrangement would be tantamount to ignoring actual historical facts and to dismissing the binding nature of the dogmatic councils of the Second Millennium.

To quote my brother as he was wont to say in his childhood, "Do tell."

Yes, "do tell" me all about the fact that it is indeed preposterous to contend that the churches of the East did not accept Papal Primacy in the First Millennium and accede thereto. "Do tell" me all about the fact that the arrangement mentioned in the Italian news report would indeed ignore the guidance of the Third Person of the Most Blessed Trinity, God the Holy Ghost, during the Second Millennium of the Catholic Church. Yes, by all means. It is indeed most preposterous that such contentions could be made. I agree. Je conviens! Mais oui. Certainement. (Hey, I may be uncultured, but I did take five years of French in high school and college many centuries ago now.)

There is only one tiny, teeny-weenie, itsy-bitsy little problem with these protestations from some Motu quarters: the terms such as those offered to the Orthodox as reported recently in an Italian news journal are contained in The Ravenna Document itself, and they are exactly what the then Joseph "Cardinal" Ratzinger, ever the "original" thinker as he uses his "New Theology" to find ways to make ambiguous what is certain and clear, proposed in Principles of Catholic Theology eighteen years ago. See for yourselves:

It remains for the question of the role of the bishop of Rome in the communion of all the Churches to be studied in greater depth. What is the specific function of the bishop of the “first see” in an ecclesiology of koinonia and in view of what we have said on conciliarity and authority in the present text? How should the teaching of the first and second Vatican councils on the universal primacy be understood and lived in the light of the ecclesial practice of the first millennium? These are crucial questions for our dialogue and for our hopes of restoring full communion between us.

We, the members of the Joint International Commission for the Theological Dialogue between the Roman Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church, are convinced that the above statement on ecclesial communion, conciliarity and authority represents positive and significant progress in our dialogue, and that it provides a firm basis for future discussion of the question of primacy at the universal level in the Church. We are conscious that many difficult questions remain to be clarified, but we hope that, sustained by the prayer of Jesus “That they may all be one … so that the world may believe” (Jn 17, 21), and in obedience to the Holy Spirit, we can build upon the agreement already reached. Reaffirming and confessing “one Lord, one faith, one baptism” (Eph 4, 5), we give glory to God the Holy Trinity, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, who has gathered us together. (The Ravenna Document)

How, then are the maximum demands to be decided in advance? Certainly, no one who claims allegiance to Catholic theology can simply declare the doctrine of primacy null and void, especially not if he seeks to understand the objections and evaluates with an open mind the relative weight of what can be determined historically. Nor it is possible, on the other hand, for him to regard as the only possible form and, consequently, as binding on all Christians the form this primacy has taken in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries. . . .

After all, Cardinal Humbert of Silva Candida, in the same bull in which he excommunicated the Patriarch Michael Cerularius and thus inaugurated the schism between East and West, designated the Emperor and the people of Constantinople as "very Christian and orthodox", although their concept of the Roman primary was certainly far less different from that of Cerularius than from that, let us say, of the First Vatican Council. In other words, Rome must not require more from the East with respect to the doctrine of primacy than had been formulated and was lived in the first millennium. (Joseph Ratzinger, Principles of Catholic Theology, pp. 198-199)


Attention, all of your folks at Rorate Caeli blogspot and the New Liturgical Movement and other such sites, Joseph Ratzinger himself believes that "Rome must not require more from the East with respect to the doctrine of primacy than had bene formulated and was lived in the first millennium." This is a distortion of history and denial of actual facts.

The plain fact of the matter is that one cannot claim that there is any need to "understand" papal primacy and be of one mind and one heart with Catholic teaching. As noted before, conciliarists must distort history of the First Millennium in order to distort the truth about the dogmatic pronouncements made in the Second Millennium. Ratzinger/Benedict belief that Papal Primacy was exercised and understood differently in the First Millennium than in the Second Millennium is contrary to truth, as Pope Leo XIII made clear in Praeclara Gratulationis Publicae, June 20, 1894:

First of all, then, We cast an affectionate look upon the East, from whence in the beginning came forth the salvation of the world.  Yes, and the yearning desire of Our heart bids us conceive and hope that the day is not far distant when the Eastern Churches, so illustrious in their ancient faith and glorious past, will return to the fold they have abandoned.  We hope it all the more, that the distance separating them from Us is not so great: nay, with some few exceptions, we agree so entirely on other heads that, in defense of the Catholic Faith, we often have recourse to reasons and testimony borrowed from the teaching, the Rites, and Customs of the East.

The Principal subject of contention is the Primacy of the Roman Pontiff.  But let them look back to the early years of their existence, let them consider the sentiments entertained by their forefathers, and examine what the oldest Traditions testify, and it will, indeed, become evident to them that Christ's Divine Utterance, Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build My Church, has undoubtedly been realized in the Roman Pontiffs.  Many of these latter in the first gates of the Church were chosen from the East, and foremost among them Anacletus, Evaristus, Anicetus, Eleutherius, Zosimus, and Agatho; and of these a great number, after Governing the Church in Wisdom and Sanctity, Consecrated their Ministry with the shedding of their blood.  The time, the reasons, the promoters of the unfortunate division, are well known.  Before the day when man separated what God had joined together, the name of the Apostolic See was held in Reverence by all the nations of the Christian world: and the East, like the West, agreed without hesitation in its obedience to the Pontiff of Rome, as the Legitimate Successor of St. Peter, and, therefore, the Vicar of Christ here on earth.

And, accordingly, if we refer to the beginning of the dissension, we shall see that Photius himself was careful to send his advocates to Rome on the matters that concerned him; and Pope Nicholas I sent his Legates to Constantinople from the Eternal City, without the slightest opposition, "in order to examine the case of Ignatius the Patriarch with all diligence, and to bring back to the Apostolic See a full and accurate report"; so that the history of the whole negotiation is a manifest Confirmation of the Primacy of the Roman See with which the dissension then began.  Finally, in two great Councils, the second of Lyons and that of Florence, Latins and Greeks, as is notorious, easily agreed, and all unanimously proclaimed as Dogma the Supreme Power of the Roman Pontiffs.

We have recalled those things intentionally, for they constitute an invitation to peace and reconciliation; and with all the more reason that in Our own days it would seem as if there were a more conciliatory spirit towards Catholics on the part of the Eastern Churches, and even some degree of kindly feeling.  To mention an instance, those sentiments were lately made manifest when some of Our faithful travelled to the East on a Holy Enterprise, and received so many proofs of courtesy and good-will.

Therefore, Our mouth is open to you, to you all of Greek or other Oriental Rites who are separated from the Catholic Church, We earnestly desire that each and every one of you should meditate upon the words, so full of gravity and love, addressed by Bessarion to your forefathers: "What answer shall we give to God when He comes to ask why we have separated from our Brethren: to Him Who, to unite us and bring us into One Fold, came down from Heaven, was Incarnate, and was Crucified?  What will our defense be in the  eyes of posterity?  Oh, my Venerable Fathers, we must not suffer this to be, we must not entertain this thought, we must not thus so ill provide for ourselves and for our Brethren."

Weigh carefully in your minds and before God the nature of Our request.  It is not for any human motive, but impelled by Divine Charity and a desire for the salvation of all, that We advise the reconciliation and union with the Church of Rome; and We mean a perfect and complete union, such as could not subsist in any way if nothing else was brought about but a certain kind of agreement in the Tenets of Belief and an intercourse of Fraternal love.  The True Union between Christians is that which Jesus Christ, the Author of the Church, instituted and desired, and which consists in a Unity of Faith and Unity of Government.

Nor is there any reason for you to fear on that account that We or any of Our Successors will ever diminish your rights, the privileges of your Patriarchs, or the established Ritual of any one of your Churches.  It has been and always will be the intent and Tradition of the Apostolic See, to make a large allowance, in all that is right and good, for the primitive Traditions and special customs of every nation.  On the contrary, if you re-establish Union with Us, you will see how, by God's bounty, the glory and dignity of your Churches will be remarkably increased.  May God, then, in His goodness, hear the Prayer that you yourselves address to Him: "Make the schisms of the Churches cease," and "Assemble those who are dispersed, bring back those who err, and unite them to Thy Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church."  May you thus return to that one Holy Faith which has been handed down both to Us and to you from time immemorial; which your forefathers preserved untainted, and which was enhanced by the rival splendor of the Virtues, the great genius, and the sublime learning of St. Athanasius and St. Basil, St. Gregory of Nazianzum and St. John Chrysostom, the two Saints who bore the name of Cyril, and so many other great men whose glory belongs as a common inheritance to the East and to the West. (See also the excellent discussion of the the history of what led up to the Greek Schism that is contained in Fathers Francisco and Dominic Radecki's Tumultuous Times.)


Hegelian revisionists must deny history and Catholic doctrine both at the same time in an effort to build yet another story to the One World Ecumenical Church, which might soon include "Anglo-Catholics" and the Society of Saint Pius X, proving that there is room for Opus Dei, Focolare, Communion and Liberation, Cursillo, the "Catholic Charismatic Renewal," World Youth Day, the Sant'Egidio Community, the Taize Community, the Chinese Catholic Patriotic Association, and dozens of others of like-minded "movements" in the counterfeit church of conciliarism. Seeking with urgency to convert unconditionally non-Catholics to the true Church is not in the "belief system" of the lords of the counterfeit church of conciliarism.

Saint John Bosco sought to convert the hardened sinner and to bring non-Catholics into the true Sheepfold of Our Blessed Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. by placing all of his apostolic endeavors under the protection of Our Lady Help of Christians and Saint Francis de Sales. May we ask for Our Lady's help in this time of apostasy and betrayal by praying as many Rosaries each day as our states-in-life permit, asking her to have the zeal of Saint John Bosco and of Saint Francis de Sales, who brought back thousands of people steeped in one of the devil's favorite false religions, Calvinism, to be serious about the conversion of our own souls on a daily basis so that we, having made reparation for our sins to the Most Sacred Heart of Jesus through her own Sorrowful and Immaculate Heart, will be able to resist the wiles of the conciliarists and to remain firm in the Faith by refusing any concessions on our part to concilairism whatsoever.

Our Lady's Immaculate Heart will triumph in the end. May our prayers and sacrifices and humiliations and mortifications offered up to her Divine Son through that Immaculate Heart, especially now that the seventeen-day season of Septuagesima is upon us, help to bring down the One World Church and to restore the Church Militant, now in the burial of the catacombs, thereafter.

Viva Cristo Rey!


Our Lady, Help of Christians, pray for us!

Saint Joseph, Patron of Departing Souls, pray for us.

Saints Peter and Paul, pray for us.

Saint John the Baptist, pray for us.

Saint John the Evangelist, pray for us.

Saint Michael the Archangel, pray for us.

Saint Gabriel the Archangel, pray for us.

Saint Raphael the Archangel, pray for us.

Saints Joachim and Anne, pray for us.

Saints Caspar, Melchior, and Balthasar, pray for us.

Saint John Chrysostom, pray for us.

Saint John Bosco, pray for us.

Saint Francis de Sales, pray for us.

Saint Martina, pray for us.

Saint Ignatius of Antioch, pray for us.

Father Maria-Alfonse Ratisbonne, pray for us.

Father Theodore Ratisbonne, pray for us.

Pope Saint Pius X, pray for us.

Saint Vincent Ferrer, O.P., pray for us.

Queen Isabella and King Ferdinand of Spain, pray for us.

See also: A Litany of Saints


© Copyright 2010, Thomas A. Droleskey. All rights reserved.